Ramblings from a Tradition lover caught in the time warp of Spirit of V2 happy clappy crap. In other words don't hug me I'm praying
Tuesday, June 30, 2009
Friday, June 26, 2009
New Motu Proprio on the SSPX this summer?
Let me know what you think, I love comments, so have at it guys and gals
The Egyptian
Thursday, June 25, 2009
from Catholic Church Conservation
The bishops will no longer be able to express their reservations
The Italian prelate Nicola Bux for the new Motu Proprio
Consultor to the Congregation for the doctrine of the faith and waiting for a promotion strategy, Msgr Bux, an Italian priest of 63 years is friendly and discreet, but frighteningly conservative and accurate in his argument, being the determined and tireless craftsman not only of moving towards the integrists but of a restoration of traditional Catholicism as a whole. He drafted the 2007 Motu Proprio on the Mass in Latin. In his latest book, released last October in Italy, The Reform of Benedict XVI, prefaced by Vittorio Messori, Msgr Bux said that rebuilding the essence of the "sacred and divine liturgy”, will not be done with the hands of humanity. Otherwise, it "would serve no purpose other than to represent himself and specifially it does not save the man or the world, it does not sanctify it." He is convinced that the Liturgy of Saint Pius V honours to a greater degree the sense of the sacred than that of Pope Paul VI. He criticizes also quite fiercely the reform named after the Montini, a true "decomposition" of the liturgy according to him, and exacerbating what the theologian Louis Bouyer called the "decomposition of Catholicism."
Indeed, Msgr Bux is not confined solely to the liturgical domain. He denounced the opening to the world that defiles the Christian mystery and censures the relaxed life of priests in particular with regard to private life (célibat. ..). He is also against the fundamental deviance according to him of contemporary theology, which uses an "anthropological turn" (which he also denounced, following Cornelio Fabro, in Karl Rahner). He counter-poses a new turning towards the theocentric and Christocentric as symbolized by the celebration back to the East, his back turned to the faithful. It is easy to imagine the content and tone of the Motu Proprio of the near future with such a writer. Cardinal William Levada, Prefect of the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, who besides health problems is distressed, frustrated and demoralized, no longer has the power to oppose such an ultra-conservative regression. Far from appearing as a defence of the Council, the Motu Proprio will propose a minimalist reading, erasing the new and challenging spirit. In sum, a council "in the spirit of tradition" as Archbishop Lefebvre recognized can be accepted! Is this still the Council whose importance Paul VI proclaimed in 1976 in the face of traditionalist dissent? Nothing is less certain.
Thursday, June 25, 2009
SSPX Ordinations in Winona Minn
Friday, June 19, 2009
continuing conversation
- Hey Kurt, lets talk, maybe we can get a discussion going here
- Kurt
If you could get a younger priest, it might work, but all of the younger priests are going to have parish or cluster assignments. Canon Law limits the number of masses that a priest can say in a day, and I doubt that you'll be able to convince any of the local pastors to change one of their regularly scheduled masses.
- Egyptian
Actually Kurt if the TLM is to survive it has to become part of the regular rotation if you will, actually I can't see why giving up one mass would be a problem, our priest Fr Gene, is saying 1 sat night and 2 Sundays and Fr Ken who is retired and unofficially taking the place of Fr Wyen, is also doing 1 sat night and 2 Sunday masses. I don't believe Fr Wyen will be coming back after this stroke, so I don't think giving up one mass will be a big issue
Kurt
That said, your best bet might be to start by getting one of the retired priests from St. Charles to offer a supplemental mass once a month (e.g., every first Sunday) at one of the under-utilized clustered churches. Of course, you'd also have to train servers and musicians and ensure that those who have never attended the Extraordinary Form liturgy are properly catechized to participate fully (from the pew, I mean).- Egyptian
little if any music, short and precise, and grow from there, to expect a high mass with all the smells and bells, full chant choir and all right from the gate is unreasonable and does not give the people time to grow in the mass as well. Start off with four or eight good servers and build from there, boys love a challenge if presented to them properly.
- Kurt
You would also need to ensure that the availability was widely advertised through conventional media, word of mouth, and parish bulletins.
- Egyptian
agree, but scratch the conventional media
- Kurt
I would probably attend at least once. I'm toying with the idea of taking a Sunday field trip down to Dayton, where one of the parishes offers a mass every Sunday celebrated by a priest of the Fraternity of St. Peter.
- Egyptian
Please let me know what you think, one hint, sit up front. The Fraternity makes priests available to other parishes short term to help train and preform Latin Masses. My occupation makes it almost impossible to get away but have done so twice and loved it. once to a parish in Over-The-Rhine. What really caught my attention was a Baptism going on as we came in, in Latin, and on the other side of church was a line of approximately 15 people waiting for confession. At five till the priest ran out of the confessional wearing a full cassock and biretta, made for the sacristy post haste, said Mass, had one of the best sermons I have heard in years. 8 minutes on Thou Shall Keep Holy the Lords Day, made me think but that is for another day. And returned to the confessional within 10 minutes of mass and the line resumed with at least 10 more in line. And I don't believe that priest was much over the age of 30
- Kurt
I am convinced, however, that any priest who celebrates the current mass poorly is going to butcher the old mass just as badly. Conversely, any non-schismatic priest that is willing to perform the liturgy in Latin is likely to celebrate a reverent liturgy in the vernacular.
- Egyptian
do you read Fr Z? he seems to get letters from priests claiming that learning or relearning the Latin Mass profoundly effected how they say and experience the NO as well. I loved the young priest that told of how upon returning to his parish after attending a class on the Extraordinary form, he took down the throne that he had placed for himself in front of the tabernacle and sat himself off to the side and reinstated Christ to the front and center of the sanctuary, he never realized how he had made himself the center of attention instead of Christ, this could have the effect of helping many priests.
So, for the public, lets start a conversation.
Honestly I don't know, define crowd
1.If it were done as a regularity scheduled mass not some special one time event- maybe
2. if it was done with the desire to grow it- maybe
3. If it were done in one of the old churches that still has the altars and everything in the right place, not the organ by the priest and the priests chair as throne in place of the Tabernacle and Christ has been shunted off to the side altar or even to some Adoration Chapel no one can find-maybe
4.if we could find an enthusiastic younger priest -maybe
5. with proper education and teaching from the pulpit of area priests instead of jealousy (" you should not go to Saint Ipsy Dipsy for the old mass because you are a member of this parish and I forbid it") I once had a priest tell me that I was forbidden to go to confession at any other parish but his, but that is for another time.
6. If the younger generation is encouraged to go and experience it and not told that it is just for the old geezers that just can't accept the happy clappy crap- definite maybe
But for the love of the Holy Father, lets TRY, Cardinal Hoyos stated that the Latin Mass should be available to everyone even if not directly asked for.
So Anonymous, please respond and drop me an address, so we can correspond, If you would rather I can just do it like this also
The Egyptian
posted by the Egyptian at 12:59 PM on Jun 17, 2009
Thursday, June 18, 2009
Am I a Hater ??? Me ? I'm too cute
what I sent
There are Notre Dame trustees who directly support Obama administration goals. Dr. Mary Anne Fox is chancellor at UC San Diego and Vice-Chair of the National Science Board. Recently Fox announced the opening of a new research facility where the school will cultivate and experiment on human embryonic stem cells. The laboratory will partner with Scripps Research and the Salk Institute in
all the clap trap about social justice is worthless if the child never is given the chance to experience it. As for myself, Norte Dame is finished as a Catholic school, I would not recommend it to anyone until it gets back to basic Catholic principles
There are Notre Dame trustees who directly support Obama administration goals. Dr. Mary Anne Fox is chancellor at UC San Diego and Vice-Chair of the National Science Board. Recently Fox announced the opening of a new research facility where the school will cultivate and experiment on human embryonic stem cells. The laboratory will partner with Scripps Research and the Salk Institute in
In 2007 the Institute hosted a stem cell ethics conference. R. Alta Charo, bioethicist and advisor to the Obama transition team was a key speaker. At UCSD the bio-engineering department has just established a partnership with
"What "Diane" sent me by snail mail"
dated 6 14 09 at top
David
Your "HATE" is what is wrong with Catholicism ("she" scratched in between the lines "Catholic Tele") God forgive you and all of us
The priest molested CHILDREN (she underlined children several times) so your case is mute!
Diane
Diane if that is your real name, use your surname and location or bugger off, from now on your letters will be burned, GROW UP, you sound positively hateful ;>)
The Egyptian
God Lovers and People Lovers at Mass
from the National Catholic Register
This really gets to the point of the first part of my rant below, the horizontal comes after and is subordinate to the vertical. All credit to Fr. Longnecker. see his blogs
http://www.dwightlongenecker.com/http://gkupsidedown.blogspot.com/the Egyptian
BY Father Dwight Longenecker
June 21-27, 2009 Issue | Posted 6/12/09 at 10:14 AM
When Jesus was asked which of the commandments was most important, he replied that we should love God and love our neighbor. He added that on these two commandments hang all the Law and the prophets. He might have added that on these two things hang everything that matters to everyone everywhere.
Most importantly, it is the love of God and the love of our neighbor that matters if we take our Christian faith seriously. All the rules and regulations and rubrics, all the debates and doctrines and dogmas are meaningless if we do not have the love of God and the love of our neighbor.
It is a quirk of human nature, however, that most of us fall into one of two categories. We are either “God lovers” or “people lovers.” If you like, all of us have a natural preference or a built-in instinct to focus on one or the other.
Those who are God lovers are more interested in the vertical than the horizontal. They focus on the other world rather than this world. They concentrate on liturgy, spirituality, prayer, adoration, consecrated life, vocation, religion and worship. They see the Church as the fellowship of saints and angels gathered around the throne of God. God lovers tend to be more cerebral, traditional, conservative and concerned with right worship, right behavior and right belief.
Those who are people lovers are more interested in the horizontal. They focus on this world more than the next world. They concentrate on peace and justice and ministering to others. They see the Church as the people of God here on earth, making their pilgrimage to heaven. The people lovers tend to be more relational, intuitive, progressive and innovative. The sit lightly regarding rules and dogmas and are more concerned with expressing God’s love through compassionate relationships with their brothers and sisters.
The God lovers see the Mass as a solemn sacrifice that lifts mankind to the very threshold of heaven. They want fine liturgy and esoteric, magnificent and otherworldly worship. For the God lovers, worship transports us from this vale of tears to the worship of the cosmic spheres. For them, the Mass is the great sacrifice that applies the eternal act of redemption to souls in need of salvation.
The people lovers see the Mass as the fellowship meal of the people of God. The worship is warm and comforting. It is designed to make everyone experience the love of God here and now. The Church is a place of welcome for all. Worship is a healing, inspiring action designed to make everyone feel forgiven and feel good about themselves and each other. The Church is in this world and is of this world and needs to adapt to this world so that more and more people can be helped.
As you read this, you are probably already instinctively choosing which of these two models you like best. You will believe that yours is the best, and that, at best, the other one is faulty, and, at worst, it is heretical and damaging to the Church and should be stopped.
But we need both, don’t we? We’re called to love God and love our neighbor. There is certainly a divide within Catholicism, and if it can be analyzed in this way, why does such a divide exist?
The divide between the God lovers and the people lovers exists not because one is right and the other is wrong. The divide exists because we have not prioritized properly.
The lovers of people may not like to hear this, but the love of God is the first priority. Love of neighbor comes after the love of God and is dependent on the love of God. We cannot love our neighbor if we do not love God first. Why? Because we have no motive, no power and no grace to love our neighbor if we have not loved God first.
Therefore, the love of God is the Catholic priority. Loving our neighbor is mandatory and cannot be overlooked, but it comes after the love of God. If this is true, then we must ask ourselves where we properly love God and where we properly love our neighbor. The answer is that we love God primarily within the life of prayer and worship: within and through the liturgy.
If we love God in church, then we love our neighbor outside of church. Most of the problems with modernist liturgy and worship are that progressive Catholics have brought into the Church what rightly belongs outside of the Church. In other words, the fellowship, the peace and justice, the social activism, the missionary enterprise, the education and health care and family concern — all of this is the proper activity of the people of God outside of the liturgy, and we have brought it into the liturgy.
As a result, the liturgy has become all about loving people instead of loving God. Why is this? Because too many Catholics have actually replaced the love of God with the love of people. Clever theologians thought that the supernatural, otherworldly aspect of worship seemed too much of a stretch for ordinary, modern, scientific people, and they made the liturgy folksy and people-centered in order to adapt the faith for modern man.
The result has been a disaster. Catholics, therefore, love people, but many have lost the language for loving God; and the greatest sadness is that once you no longer love God, it is not very long before you are no longer able to love people either, for what do you find to love in people if you have not loved God first? For the only thing I truly love in my neighbor is the image of God in him, and the only way I can discern this is by first learning to love God.
The final result of all this is that we have been left with the only remaining remnant: the love of ourselves. Thus, in too much of Catholic worship what was once the glorious worship of Almighty God has become a jumble of comfort hymns and self-help therapy.
The only remedy is to return to Christ’s priorities: to learn once more how to put the love of God first in our lives so that we may eventually learn again how to love our neighbor.
Father Dwight Longenecker is chaplain to St. Joseph’s Catholic School in Greenville, South Carolina.
Wednesday, June 17, 2009
FLYING CRAP ALERT, I feel a rant comming on
If I hear the garbage about how we are now a horizontal church instead of vertical one much more, I will hurt somone, yes we have become horizontal, the priest preforming for the people facing him with no room for God between them, instead of reaching up and out, all facing to God we are reaching out to each other, we don't see the Altar and the statues and candles and vestments, all we see is the priest preparing a meal and we treat it as such.
When is the last time you have seen someone abstain from communion or have yourself stayed in the pew because you have felt not worthy and need confession first, instead of just going up for a bite and a drink, worse if you would the looks you'd get would be incredible , (who did he just murder, does his wife know) I really think that needing all the extra distributors is a sign of how bad it really is . I see young people and some adults with their hands in their pockets or folded bouncing off their thighs as they walk, looks like a damn soup line.
I believe that if we restore the dignity of the old mass and properly train MALE servers and turn them into an exclusive group with ranks to earn, we will in turn see more vocations. Stop deluding the girls, they CANNOT be priests, period, train up the boys and watch the difference. Young boys duck out when the girls show up, yes the girls are easier to train, so what, the boys need the attention, if it is difficult the boys will step up, they love a challenge, the N.O. mass is a cinch to learn, it is not a challenge.
Whew that is the most I have typed in years, good to get it off my chest, now tear into it folks ;>)
The Egyptian
Tuesday, June 16, 2009
What we are Missing
I know that this post will truly piss off many Conservative "John Paul II-We love you" type Catholics. But I figured, what the heck? Why not start the week off right!
Monday, June 15, 2009
gone to hell
Sunday, June 14, 2009
Corpus Christi in Linz-another giant leap towards leaving the Catholic Church
Catholicism run amuck, wich is more reverent and pleasingto God and less confusing to worishers? the golden monstrance or a giant pair of pointy nose pliers holding a pita bread!
Thanks to Gloria.tv and to Summorum Pontificum for this short film, showing the Dean of Urfahr, Helmut Part at the Corpus Christi procession according to the Rite of Linz.
The Monstrance: an oversized pincer holding a focaccia bread.
The oh-so-enlightened modernists are not only deficient in their fear of God, they also have no sympathy with the people.
The scandal took place in front of the recently reopened Ars Electronica Centre, a high tech IT centre. They have a superb top floor bar and restaurant overlooking the Danube- they also serve foccacia bread!
There is a new artifical arena, created by the new development which was used. In the background, the Parish Church of Urfahr, dedicated I think to St Anne.
The Eucharist using a table as portrayed in Leonardo's Last Supper. Symbolism is correct for this particular Feast, except the modernists responsible for this outrage will believe that every Eucharist is a meal and no longer the Sacrifice identical with that on the Cross.
And look whose lurking in the background between the two priests! Josef Puhringer, the former religious studies teacher who is now Regional Prime Minister, one of the leading anti-Papal conspiritors against the appointment of Father Wagner as Bishop.
Bischof Ludwig Schwarz
HerrenstraĂźe 19
A-4020 Linz
Austria
Fax: (+43 732) 772676-1163
E-Mail: bischoefl.sekretariat@dioezese-linz.at
Please be polite but he does have five parishes at least where a totally deficient theology of the Eucharist is taught- and I don't think it just those.
Wednesday, June 3, 2009
Prophecy about the upcoming upheaval in the Church
Monday, May 18, 2009
Something About Mary ~ Fatima...Papal Prohecy??
Tabernacle placement and Ugly As Sin
This Explains the Secular Attitude of Fr Jenkins
The Egyptian
By Frank Walker
Pewsitter.com
May 10, 2009 - A great deal of criticism has been leveled at Notre Dame President, Rev John I. Jenkins, for his choice to honor President Obama at this year’s commencement. But Fr. Jenkins, like all university presidents, must consider the will of the school’s governing board. The Notre Dame Board of Trustees is a powerful organization, comprised of top international business owners, chairs of rich endowments, academic leaders, judges, attorneys, faculty, and prominent clergy. These individuals are typically very wealthy, well-connected and highly accomplished; many with broad interests outside the university. A closer look at the board and its affiliations might shed light on just how Notre Dame came to this decision.
Many of the influential alumni on the Notre Dame board are from the nearby Chicago area, and are part of the same Chicago power structure that President Obama ascended. Richard and Peggy Notebaert are leading members of the ND community, and Notebaert is chair of the Notre Dame trustees. While Obama served in the senate, the Peggy Notebaert Nature Museum, received federal funding earmarked by Obama.. Key Obama campaign fundraiser, Frank Clark served on the board of the Notebaert Museum at the time. The Chicago Museum of Science and Industry, where ND trustee Arthur Velasquez is on the board, also received millions in earmarks. Velasquez contributed to Obama’s campaigns in 04 and 08.
Chicago power at Notre Dame extends to political posts as well. Justice Ann Claire Williams was appointed by Bill Clinton in 1999 to the U.S. Court of Appeals 7th District. In 2004 she ruled that the Department of Justice could not subpoena hospital abortion records to enforce the ban on partial birth abortions. Left-leaning Chicago politics has a place on the Notre Dame governing board. Currently Ann Claire Williams is receiving serious attention among the top three possible Obama replacements for retiring Supreme Court Justice David Souter.
Some Notre Dame board members have made ethical misjudgments in the past. Chicago trustee Philip B. Rooney, Chairman of Claddagh Investments, is former CEO of Waste Management Inc., the world’s largest waste services company. In 2002 Rooney and Waste Management, along with Arthur Andersen, Enron and others, were indicted by the SEC in a massive fraud case. WMI management eventually settled for 30.8 million in penalties. The SEC barred Rooney permanently from being an officer in a public company. He divested most of his own stock before the investigations caused shareholder assets to plummet. Despite this history Rooney retains his board position at Notre Dame today.
ND Trustee Douglas Tong Hsu is chairman of Far Eastern Group, a 32-billion dollar Chinese conglomerate. Hsu’s strong political connections in Taiwan lean toward unification with mainland China. He recently stated that democratic governance is a hindrance to investment, and praised communist China's system for being more favorable to business with its staunch system of rule. In 2006 Hsu was indicted for breach of trust and forgery in connection with a major department store takeover. These charges also involved the Taiwanese first lady, Wu Shu-chen. With Douglas Tong Hsu, the political and business interests of the PRC have influence at Notre Dame. In 2006, ND President Jenkins led a small delegation to East Asia, where they met with Hsu, and travelled to communist Beijing to develop partner programs for the university.
There are Notre Dame trustees who directly support Obama administration goals. Dr. Mary Anne Fox is chancellor at UC San Diego and Vice-Chair of the National Science Board. Recently Fox announced the opening of a new research facility where the school will cultivate and experiment on human embryonic stem cells. The laboratory will partner with Scripps Research and the Salk Institute in La Jolla, CA where Fox also sits on the leadership council. In 2007 the Institute hosted a stem cell ethics conference. R. Alta Charo, bioethicist and advisor to the Obama transition team was a key speaker. At UCSD the bio-engineering department has just established a partnership with Tsinghua University in China, to further their research.
Raymond G. Chambers, co-founder of anti-poverty organization Millenium Promise, serves on the ServiceNation leadership council. ServiceNation is a political group that supports the enormous multiplication of federal national service programs in the Obama agenda, including the just-passed Kennedy Serve America Act. The Kennedy act was touted as the “largest expansion of community and national service since the launch of the Civilian Conservation Corps.” In September, Chambers was a panelist at the ServiceNation Summit as special envoy for malaria, United Nations.
Several Notre Dame board members lead American banks and major investment houses, where the federal government has sunk billions in bailout funds and stock purchases. Robert Conway was head of Goldman Sachs (AIG). Philip J. Purcell was formerly CEO of Morgan Stanley and COO of Dean Witter. Enrique Hernandez Jr. is on the board of Wells Fargo Bank. Business leaders in this sector are under increasing pressure to appeal to the Obama administration, the Treasury Department, and the US Congress for their survival and direction.
In conclusion, a review of the Board of Trustees at Notre Dame does NOT reveal a particularly strong Catholic identity. There are board members whose actions and associations put them in a position directly at odds with Church teaching and in line with the Obama administration. At the Notre Dame board we see a group of well-connected well-heeled individuals from all sectors of society, and at the most prominent levels. Taking a stand against inviting the President of the United States would likely jeopardize membership in the elite club where they travel. Therefore it is highly unlikely that there will be any movement from within the board to rescind invitation to President Obama.
Tuesday, June 2, 2009
So bad that Drudge reports on it
Archbishop Mauro Piacenza has told Vatican Radio the sacrament of penance has been experiencing a "deep crisis" for decades. Piacenza, an official for the Vatican office on clergy, says fewer people distinguish between good and evil, and as a result don't go to confession.
The archbishop said in the interview Tuesday that if faithful don't have a sense of sin, they might "confuse" confession with "the couch of a psychologist or a psychiatrist."
He says the Vatican plans to publish this year a kind of handbook on confession to drum up enthusiasm among Catholics toward the sacrament.
left wing anti-life crowd
This Tiller murder really has me in a quandary, two army recruiters were shot yesterday, and not one word of apology from the anti-war, anti-military left wingnuts, how about Rachel Madow, the whole MSNBC crowd, yet the second abortionist murdered in over 10 years and we prolifers are going to be drug on the carpet and villified. Let's hear the liberals in this country take responsilibity for their murdering anti-life progeny. Want odds on that happening?
The Egyptian
"For what things a man shall sow, those also shall he reap."
thanks guys, you are the greatest
the Egyptian
Tiller The Killer's Demise
Draw what conclusions you may
WARNING: graphic images and harsh language.
As we all know by now, the individual who made his fortune and fame by specifically performing 3d trimester abortions, was just killed. In more basic terms - The individual who did this for a living -
was introduced to one of these -
I know we're not suppose to favor vigilante justice and all that, so even though I won't exactly be shedding any alligator tears for Tiller, I will say a prayer that God has mercy on his miserable, murderous soul.
He'll need it.
By the way, the current resident of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue reacted to the news by stating that he is "shocked and outraged" by Tiller's death. How sad all those slaughtered children don't get a modicum of the same shock and outrage.
Just so everyone knows, it was not my intent to shock or outrage anyone with this posting. Rather, to think. What it is that you actually think about is your call.
After reading a handful of Catholic blogs, I'm going to come out and say it; enough of this fake lamentations about the "murder" of Tiller, and how some can't wait for the assassin be brought to justice, etc. What bullshit. I feel about as bad for Tiller as I do Josef Mengele.
So while certain apologists for Tiller the Killer quote from Sacred Scripture about how horrid it is that he was the unwilling recipient of a very late term abortion, allow me to quote as well (Galatians 6:8 Douay-Rheims Bible);
I've just read a couple of Catholic bloggers who spoke of "Tiller now won't have the opportunity to repent".
Since when do we place man-made time constraints on God? Tiller's had years to repent. He made a choice -- murder for money was his god. And it sure as hell didn't matter how many human beings were sacrificed to his god.
Tiller made a choice. He lived with it, now he's died with it.